The recent terrorist attacks in the United States have just shown what acts
of terrorism can achieve. What was so incredible about this attack was that
it involved the hijacking of not just one aeroplane, which would be bad
enough in itself, but four aeroplanes. Three of these were flown into packed
buildings full of people. The fourth plane crashed outside a city killing
all on board. There was clear evidence to show that the last plane was
intended for yet another building. The consequence of this attack was mass
destruction and the deaths of thousands of innocents.
This act of terrorism has inflicted more damage on America and the West than
anything the old Soviet Union could accomplish in the Cold War. It is the
period since the end of the Cold War, which was initiated by the collapse of
the former Soviet Union, which has left the free world highly unstable.
The collapse of the Old Soviet Union created many problems. The countries
that made up the former Soviet Union are not policed in the same firm manner
as they once were.
The economic decline of the former Soviet Union has created further
problems. It has been accurately reported that many Russian army leaders
were not paid for 2 years or more in the closing stages of Boris Yeltsin’s
rule. It is quite obvious what happened to some military hardware. It was
sold to whoever was prepared to pay for it. Much of this has fallen into the
hands of extremists. The borders in south and central Asia are now un-
policed and unsupervised.
Despite all these problems following the collapse of the former Soviet Union
Western security organisations have been terribly complacent. Western
governments have behaved since the demise of the old Soviet Union as though
all threats to security have suddenly disappeared. The CIA and MI5 as well
as the armed forces have had their effectiveness seriously undermined by a
combination of government cuts, criticism, administrative malpractice,
political correctness, and in the case of Britain especially, human rights
legislation from Europe. In addition to all of this the Shengen agreement
which came into effect shortly before the demise of the former Soviet Union,
removed internal border checks, which means terrorists can move at will
anywhere in Europe.
The West as a consequence is now dangerously weak. It is this weakness,
which has been exploited by terrorists. Despite the savagery of the attacks
in America there are countries in Europe, which still do not take seriously
the magnitude of what has happened. They have shown this by their hesitance
to give full unequivocal support to US President George Bush for an
aggressive campaign against terrorism. This is despite the fact that many of
those killed came from practically every single European country.
What we have seen is clear evidence that there are some who will exploit the
freedom of the West to create death and mass destruction of an unimaginable
scale to further their cause, whatever that cause may be. What we all have
to accept is that an act of terrorism on this scale is clear evidence that
the freedom and safety of all of us is now at risk. This applies as much to
those in Europe as it does to those living in the United States or indeed
anywhere else for that matter.
This is not the time for any appeasement for terrorism whatsoever. It has to
be accepted that some conflicts cannot be settled by diplomacy and rhetoric.
Conflict, even violent conflict for that matter may well be the only way to
defeat acts of terrorism on the scale we saw in the United States.
For the sake of all of us in all countries, terrorism has to be dealt with
in a firm, clear, thorough and decisive manner whatever that may happen to
be. There may well be no more chances.
We should never forget what happened to those people in
America.
My heart goes out to all of them.
GAVIN STAPLES.
A really excellent post, you show a great and clear insight of the magnitude
of the task facing the west and also a great understanding of the weakness
within our systems. The reasons for the weaknesses are manifold but two
stand out. Greed, yes sheer unadulterated greed, this greed is one of the
main reasons why our guard has dropped, as a group we have become more
interested in increasing our standard of living then we have in keeping our
countries secure. No rich house can survive without watch dogs and the will
to defend against those that would enter with intent to steal and murder.
The second is the arrogance to reckon that we are so civilised and modern
that we can ignore rules that history has taught us, we have enjoyed the
luxury of allowing liberal thoughts to blind us to the essences of survival.
We have allowed effete notions to become part of our body politic and
completely changed our attitudes into those that can only ensure that we
will be destroyed by the forces of evil.
The enemies of the west have noted this and in their cabals’ they tell one
another that we are decadent and will offer no real resistance to a
determined foe who has the will to exterminate us and our civilisation.
Hubris has always portended the decay of nations and individuals. Nemesis
will visit us very soon unless we learn from this unspeakable terrorist
action and begin to show all that hate us that we have the courage and the
will to tackle them. To do this we will have to change many of the
politically correct and weakening thoughts that have preoccupied our
intelligentsia and academics for so long. The impregnability against being
conquered by an alien culture that would be prepared, at best, to enslave
us, and at worst wipe us out, never really existed, all civilisations can
topple. However even if we thought that we were in that position, I pray to
God that people have now learnt this is not the case.
"Gavin Staples" <gstap…@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vOip7.61303$y_3.4405515@nnrp3.clara.net…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> The recent terrorist attacks in the United States have just shown what
acts
> of terrorism can achieve. What was so incredible about this attack was
that
> it involved the hijacking of not just one aeroplane, which would be bad
> enough in itself, but four aeroplanes. Three of these were flown into
packed
> buildings full of people. The fourth plane crashed outside a city killing
> all on board. There was clear evidence to show that the last plane was
> intended for yet another building. The consequence of this attack was mass
> destruction and the deaths of thousands of innocents.
> This act of terrorism has inflicted more damage on America and the West
than
> anything the old Soviet Union could accomplish in the Cold War. It is the
> period since the end of the Cold War, which was initiated by the collapse
of
> the former Soviet Union, which has left the free world highly unstable.
> The collapse of the Old Soviet Union created many problems. The countries
> that made up the former Soviet Union are not policed in the same firm
manner
> as they once were.
> The economic decline of the former Soviet Union has created further
> problems. It has been accurately reported that many Russian army leaders
> were not paid for 2 years or more in the closing stages of Boris Yeltsin’s
> rule. It is quite obvious what happened to some military hardware. It was
> sold to whoever was prepared to pay for it. Much of this has fallen into
the
> hands of extremists. The borders in south and central Asia are now un-
> policed and unsupervised.
> Despite all these problems following the collapse of the former Soviet
Union
> Western security organisations have been terribly complacent. Western
> governments have behaved since the demise of the old Soviet Union as
though
> all threats to security have suddenly disappeared. The CIA and MI5 as well
> as the armed forces have had their effectiveness seriously undermined by a
> combination of government cuts, criticism, administrative malpractice,
> political correctness, and in the case of Britain especially, human rights
> legislation from Europe. In addition to all of this the Shengen agreement
> which came into effect shortly before the demise of the former Soviet
Union,
> removed internal border checks, which means terrorists can move at will
> anywhere in Europe.
> The West as a consequence is now dangerously weak. It is this weakness,
> which has been exploited by terrorists. Despite the savagery of the
attacks
> in America there are countries in Europe, which still do not take
seriously
> the magnitude of what has happened. They have shown this by their
hesitance
> to give full unequivocal support to US President George Bush for an
> aggressive campaign against terrorism. This is despite the fact that many
of
> those killed came from practically every single European country.
> What we have seen is clear evidence that there are some who will exploit
the
> freedom of the West to create death and mass destruction of an
unimaginable
> scale to further their cause, whatever that cause may be. What we all have
> to accept is that an act of terrorism on this scale is clear evidence that
> the freedom and safety of all of us is now at risk. This applies as much
to
> those in Europe as it does to those living in the United States or indeed
> anywhere else for that matter.
> This is not the time for any appeasement for terrorism whatsoever. It has
to
> be accepted that some conflicts cannot be settled by diplomacy and
rhetoric.
> Conflict, even violent conflict for that matter may well be the only way
to
> defeat acts of terrorism on the scale we saw in the United States.
> For the sake of all of us in all countries, terrorism has to be dealt
with
> in a firm, clear, thorough and decisive manner whatever that may happen to
> be. There may well be no more chances.
> We should never forget what happened to those people in
> America.
> My heart goes out to all of them.
> GAVIN STAPLES.
Actually the acts of terror have accomplished NOTHING. The acts of terror have
awoke a sleeping giant.
Fraternally,
Walt
Sgt. NYSDOCS
"The last refuge of someone with nothing to say is Ad Hominem."
http://stormfront.org
http://www.spearhead-uk.com
"Gavin Staples" <gstap…@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vOip7.61303$y_3.4405515@nnrp3.clara.net…
> The recent terrorist attacks in the United States have just shown what
acts
> of terrorism can achieve. What was so incredible about this attack was
that
> it involved the hijacking of not just one aeroplane, which would be bad
> enough in itself, but four aeroplanes. Three of these were flown into
packed
> buildings full of people. The fourth plane crashed
Far from being the terrorists of the world, the Islamic peoples have been
its victims :
John Pilger : The New Statesman 13 Sep 2001
Source: http://pilger.carlton.com/print
If the attacks on America have their source in the Islamic world, who can be
surprised? Two days earlier, eight people were killed in southern Iraq when
British and American planes bombed civilian areas. Not a word appeared in
the mainstream media. An estimated 200,000 Iraqis, according to the Health
Education Trust, died during and in the immediate aftermath of the slaughter
known as the Gulf war. This was never news that touched public consciousness
in the west. At least a million civilians, half of them children, have since
died in Iraq as a result of a medieval embargo imposed by the United States
and Britain. In Pakistan and Afghanistan, the mujahedin, which gave birth to
the fanatical Taliban, was largely the creation of the Central Intelligence
Agency; the terrorist training camps where Osama Bin Laden, "America’s most
wanted man", allegedly planned his attacks, were built with American money
and backing. In Palestine, the enduring illegal occupation by Israel would
have collapsed long ago were it not for American backing.
Far from being the terrorists of the world, the Islamic peoples have been
its victims – that is, the victims of American fundamentalism, whose power,
in all its forms, military, strategic and economic, is the greatest source
of terrorism on earth. This fact is largely censored from the western media.
That Tony Blair, whose government sells lethal weapons to Israel and has
sprayed Iraq and Yugoslavia with cluster bombs and depleted uranium and was
the greatest arms supplier to the genocidists in Indonesia, can be taken
seriously when he now speaks about the "shame" of the "new evil of mass
terrorism" says much about the censorship of our collective sense of how the
world is managed. One of Blair’s favourite words – fatuous – comes to mind.
Alas, it is no comfort to the families of the thousands of ordinary
Americans who have died so terribly that the perpetrators of their suffering
may be the product of western policies.
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Factoid – Almost one third of all people in the world are reportedly Muslim.
The West, America, Christianity, or whatever words you want to apply cannot
live reasonably in the same world if a state of holy war exists.
Terrorist factions are, thank God, a relatively infinitesimal proportion of
Muslims.
While I have no qualms about ‘taking out’ the enemy, we’d better know
exactly who the enemy is before we start. And when we start, we had better
do it decisively. Half measures (like Iraq) avail nothing.
Mistaken targets, toward which we apparently launched attacks in some
instances in Sudan, Iraq,Yugoslavia and others, must be avoided.
Patriotism is great, the desire for revenge is obvious, and the goal of
creating a safe and peaceful environment where everyone can live and prosper
is laudable.
‘John Wayne-ism’ alone won’t make this problem go away.
I hope for a measured and appropriate response, including a close
examination of politics that got us to this state and self-critical
restructuring to help keep us
strong but with minimal target profile.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> If the attacks on America have their source in the Islamic world, who can
be
> surprised? Two days earlier, eight people were killed in southern Iraq
when
> British and American planes bombed civilian areas. Not a word appeared in
> the mainstream media. An estimated 200,000 Iraqis, according to the Health
> Education Trust, died during and in the immediate aftermath of the
slaughter
> known as the Gulf war. This was never news that touched public
consciousness
> in the west. At least a million civilians, half of them children, have
since
> died in Iraq as a result of a medieval embargo imposed by the United
States
> and Britain. In Pakistan and Afghanistan, the mujahedin, which gave birth
to
> the fanatical Taliban, was largely the creation of the Central
Intelligence
> Agency; the terrorist training camps where Osama Bin Laden, "America’s
most
> wanted man", allegedly planned his attacks, were built with American money
> and backing. In Palestine, the enduring illegal occupation by Israel would
> have collapsed long ago were it not for American backing.
> Far from being the terrorists of the world, the Islamic peoples have been
> its victims – that is, the victims of American fundamentalism, whose
power,
> in all its forms, military, strategic and economic, is the greatest source
> of terrorism on earth. This fact is largely censored from the western
media.
> That Tony Blair, whose government sells lethal weapons to Israel and has
> sprayed Iraq and Yugoslavia with cluster bombs and depleted uranium and
was
> the greatest arms supplier to the genocidists in Indonesia, can be taken
> seriously when he now speaks about the "shame" of the "new evil of mass
> terrorism" says much about the censorship of our collective sense of how
the
> world is managed. One of Blair’s favourite words – fatuous – comes to
mind.
> Alas, it is no comfort to the families of the thousands of ordinary
> Americans who have died so terribly that the perpetrators of their
suffering
> may be the product of western policies.
Well, quite frankly you are wrong on several points.
* The Taliban were not created by the US, but were created by Pakistani
Intelligence
long after the Soviets pulled out. A lot of them are former Mujahadin,
but many Mujadadin
are also Anti-Taliban (Northern Alliance, and some other clans). Bin
Laden never received
direct US support nor was a US contact during the Afghan/Soviet war.
*Iraq has refused to comply with UN Resolutions to dismantle their Weapons
of Mass destruction
via the Gulf War cease fire agreement. Saddam is getting and has been
getting more than enough
Food and Medicine via the "Oil for Food/Medicine program" to take care of
his people. However,
reports since the end of the Gulf War are saying that he is using most
available funds to rebuild his
military, rebuild his chemical arsenal, and to gain Nuclear Technology.
Since the end of the Gulf War
he has broken all Cease Fire Agreements. The no fly zones are in force so
he doesn’t murder his own
people. After the Gulf war he used Aircraft and Helicopters to kill
hundreds in Southern Iraq (Muslims)
and Kurds in the North. When our planes in the air over the No Fly Zones
get shot at, then we must try
and take out the Anti-Aircraft that is shooting at us for protection. Have
civilians in Iraq died as a result
by accident?.I’m sure they have, but a few here and there is better than
the hundreds it would be if Saddam
was let loose on his own people. In fact he killed thousands of his own
people before the Gulf War by dropping
Chemical Weapons on a Town in Iraq because of some sort of uprising. If
sanctions were lifted on Iraq, then Saddam
would be that much closer to gaining the weapons he needs for mass
destruction. Yes, 100,000 – 200,000 Iraqi’s died during the Gulf War. About
95% of them were soldiers in the Army who Invaded, Pillaged, Raped,
Murdered, and killed
the population of the people of Kuwait. After the coalition chased them
out of Kuwait, they took an estimated
3,000-4,000 Kuwaiti’s back with them to Iraq. These people have never
been heard from again.
What we have done in Iraq the past decade is 100% justified. However,
what
we did wrong before all this was not go to Baghdad and take him out in
the first place!
We have ourselves to blame for that.
"Proactive Search" <ProactiveSea…@cfl.rr.com> writes:
[snip]
> The Taliban were not created by the US, but were created by
> Pakistani Intelligence long after the Soviets pulled out. A lot of
> them are former Mujahadin, but many Mujadadin are also Anti-Taliban
> (Northern Alliance, and some other clans). Bin Laden never received
> direct US support nor was a US contact during the Afghan/Soviet war.
It is reported Bin Ladin received CIA training during the 1980s, when
the CIA were funding the Afghan resistance to the invasion by the
Soviet Union:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1551000/1551...
James
–
James Hammerton, WWW pages: http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~james
PGP Public Key: http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~james/mykey.asc (or: pgp5.ai.mit.edu)
Details of the attack on Britain’s civil liberties at:
http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~james/politics/civlib.html
> > The Taliban were not created by the US, but were created by
> > Pakistani Intelligence long after the Soviets pulled out. A lot of
> > them are former Mujahadin, but many Mujadadin are also Anti-Taliban
> > (Northern Alliance, and some other clans). Bin Laden never received
> > direct US support nor was a US contact during the Afghan/Soviet war.
> It is reported Bin Ladin received CIA training during the 1980s, when
> the CIA were funding the Afghan resistance to the invasion by the
> Soviet Union:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1551000/1551...
Per the top former CIA official who worked in Afghanistan during the War
against
the Soviets, he did not receive direct support. In fact, this former CIA
official is saying
that Bin laden didn’t even really fight over there whatsoever except for
some light action
in one battle and that his "Prowess" as a fighter has been much exaggerated.
He was
involved more so in logistics and financial issues for the Mujahadin.This
guy said that he
only met him a few times briefly. Of course he could be lying, but this
official is no longer in the
CIA and is a private citizen now and he has also been very critical of US
MidEast
policy that led up to this. Nonetheless, we could still be fighting against
people we helped
arm! (Again)
Anyway, I wouldn’t believe everything you read on the BBC. They are not
always the most accurate
source of news and seem to be very "Pro Muslim-Pro Arab" in their reporting.
"Proactive Search" <ProactiveSea…@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pA3q7.176983$aZ.31429150@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com…
> > > The Taliban were not created by the US, but were created by
> > > Pakistani Intelligence long after the Soviets pulled out. A lot of
> > > them are former Mujahadin, but many Mujadadin are also Anti-Taliban
> > > (Northern Alliance, and some other clans). Bin Laden never received
> > > direct US support nor was a US contact during the Afghan/Soviet war.
> > It is reported Bin Ladin received CIA training during the 1980s, when
> > the CIA were funding the Afghan resistance to the invasion by the
> > Soviet Union:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1551000/1551...
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Per the top former CIA official who worked in Afghanistan during the War
> against
> the Soviets, he did not receive direct support. In fact, this former CIA
> official is saying
> that Bin laden didn’t even really fight over there whatsoever except for
> some light action
> in one battle and that his "Prowess" as a fighter has been much
exaggerated.
> He was
> involved more so in logistics and financial issues for the Mujahadin.This
> guy said that he
> only met him a few times briefly. Of course he could be lying, but this
> official is no longer in the
> CIA and is a private citizen now and he has also been very critical of US
> MidEast
> policy that led up to this. Nonetheless, we could still be fighting
against
> people we helped
> arm! (Again)
> Anyway, I wouldn’t believe everything you read on the BBC. They are not
> always the most accurate
> source of news and seem to be very "Pro Muslim-Pro Arab" in their
reporting.
As opposed to being pro-Israel?
http://stormfront.org
http://www.spearhead-uk.com
"Proactive Search" <ProactiveSea…@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RUVp7.192541$8c3.29623774@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com…
> What we have done in Iraq the past decade is 100% justified. However,
> what
> we did wrong before all this was not go to Baghdad and take him out in
> the first place!
> We have ourselves to blame for that.
"America’s one-sided policy foreign policy can be illustrated by the
different treatment afforded Israel and Iraq:
1. Iraq invaded Kuwait. Israel invaded Lebanon.
2. Perhaps 3000 Kuwait civilians died in the initial war with Iraq. 40,000
Lebanese
died from the time of the invasion through the occupation.
3. Iraq disobeyed UN resolutions to leave Kuwait. Israel disobeyed UN
resolutions to
leave Lebanon. (for 18 years)
4. Iraq broke international conventions on chemical, biological and nuclear
weapons.
Yet Israel is a far greater offender, having one of the greatest stores
of chemical,
biological and nuclear weapons in the world
5. Iraq refused UN inspections. Israel has always refused UN inspection.
6. For these violations we bombed Iraq. In response to Israel’s crimes,
America just
continued to send more billions of dollars.
American foreign policy was and continues to be Israeli policy. Israel was
not threatened with even a cutoff of U.S. aid as thousands of Lebanese
civilians died from the Israeli actions. Iraq was once a friend of America
with whom we bought oil and did much business. America actually supported
Saddam Hussein and Iraq’s war with Iran. Iraq did nothing against the United
States, but it made the mistake of becoming a strong enemy of Israel. So the
Jewish and the Jewish-controlled gentile bureaucrats, and Jewish-dominated
media quickly made our former friend, Saddam Hussein, into our archenemy.
We dropped more explosives on Iraq country in a few weeks than we had in the
whole of the Second World War. We killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis
including tens of thousands of civilians. Then we engaged in a blockade and
embargo of Iraq that even the anti-Iraq United Nations says led to the
deaths of at least 1,200,000 children and hundreds of thousands of elderly.
Let those Americans who don’t understand the why of this terrorism
concentrate on this shocking fact. One million, two hundred thousand
children have died as a direct result of our policy toward Iraq.
The Jewish Lobby and the Jewish-dominated media are very careful not to let
the American people fully understand the real reason for the Iraqi war or
the true issues in the Palestinian question. They really don’t want
Americans to know why so many millions in the Arab world hate us and why the
number grows larger every day."
David Duke
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> As opposed to being pro-Israel?
I just wish they were neither and chose a side all news organizations
should choose which is "no side"
"Jim Morris" <JMORRI…@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Ciaq7.177619$aZ.31791006@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com…
> > As opposed to being pro-Israel?
> I just wish they were neither and chose a side all news organizations
> should choose which is "no side"
I feel the BBC IS pretty evenhanded with news and documentaries.
In article <ARbq7.20952$1T5.251…@news1.oke.nextra.no>, "Larry Smith"
<lar…@online.no> wrote:
> "Jim Morris" <JMORRI…@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Ciaq7.177619$aZ.31791006@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com…
> > > As opposed to being pro-Israel?
> > I just wish they were neither and chose a side all news organizations
> > should choose which is "no side"
> I feel the BBC IS pretty evenhanded with news and documentaries.
Who are you and what have you done with the real Larry?
Mr Q. Z. D.
—-
Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round bastard.
"And when I’m dead
If you could tell them this;
What was wood became alive." – Suzanne Vega, Kaspar Hauser’s Song.
You feel that the BBC is biased, QZ?
Maybe… I had not felt that way, but it is possible.
I used to enjoy, in the olden days, listening to the world news in English
from
Radio Tirana. The Albanians hated and distrusted everybody. The news,
under those conditions, was ‘hard talk’, but pretty much unbiased.
In article <ELzq7.21755$1T5.263…@news1.oke.nextra.no>, "Larry Smith"
<lar…@online.no> wrote:
> You feel that the BBC is biased, QZ?
It has a leaning to the left that I find refreshing (being a loopy
leftie at the best of times). This is only my opinion, mind you.
> Maybe… I had not felt that way, but it is possible.
I don’t think that the BBC lends itself to being an out-and-out
propaganda machine but, IMHO, it _does_ have the bias that I mention
above.
Mr Q. Z. D.
—-
Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round bastard.
"And when I’m dead
If you could tell them this;
What was wood became alive." – Suzanne Vega, Kaspar Hauser’s Song.