KEEP IT IN THE U.S. NEWSGROUPS
"Siobhan Medeiros" <sbm2…@telus.net> wrote in message
news:5512c1bf-230f-4ab2-bab2-454b56c3aeaa@22g2000prx.googlegroups.com…
On Dec 12, 3:25 pm, Dave Heil <k…@frontiernet.net> wrote:
[SNIPPED]
15
Feb
Re: Are you an unemployed American? An unemployed American engineer? Read it and weep — then move to Germany
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"Siobhan Medeiros" <sbm2…@telus.net> wrote in message
news:5512c1bf-230f-4ab2-bab2-454b56c3aeaa@22g2000prx.googlegroups.com…
On Dec 12, 3:25 pm, Dave Heil <k…@frontiernet.net> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On 12/12/2010 22 12, Siobhan Medeiros wrote:
> > On Dec 12, 1:50 pm, Kickin’ Ass and Takin’ Names
> > <PopUlist…@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:46:55 -0500, Kickin’ Ass and Takin’ Names
> >> <PopUlist…@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> American workers, read it and wee:
> >>>http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-12-09/germans-get-jobs-for-life…
> >>> — quote
> >>> BASF SE, the world s largest chemicals maker, last month followed
> >>> Siemens AG in granting job security for the 33,000 workers at its
> >>> Ludwigshafen plant.
> >>> — end quote
> >>> That means "a job for life." In other words, they can now run out and
> >>> buy a car, or a house, or a vacation and never have to worry about
> >>> going broke. What’s in it for business?
> >>> — quote
> >>> German workers have more clout than in other countries because they
> >>> are represented in the highest echelons of company management. Every
> >>> supervisory board of publicly traded companies is evenly split between
> >>> representatives for management and employees. That system, unique to
> >>> Germany, gives works councils and union members more sway over
> >>> strategy, hiring and firing, as well as the pay of senior executives.
> >>> "When I left General Electric, I thought this can t possibly work, you
> >>> can t run a company with all these labor representatives on the
> >>> board," Peter Solmssen, who joined Siemens s management board in 2007,
> >>> said in an interview in Munich on Dec. 1.
> >>> Solmssen, a U.S. citizen who oversees compliance at the engineering
> >>> company, said he has since revised his opinion, as Siemens "gains more
> >> >from working with the labor representatives than what we give up."
> >>> — end quote
> >>> Siemens earned a profit of about $5.3 billion this year. CEO Peter
> >>> Loescher earned a 26% raise to $12 million in pay including high
> >>> performance bonus.
> >>> Oh. And if there are any out of work engineers around here,
> >>> — quote
> >>> Siemens Chief Executive Officer Peter Loescher said he s "desperately
> >>> seeking engineers," with about 3,000 unfilled positions in Germany,
> >>> twice the number from the middle of last year. Most openings are for
> >>> engineers, computer and natural scientists, according to Siemens.
> >>> — end quote
> >>> Hmmmm. Remember a few years ago when the Bush adminstration was
> >>> telling everyone how goddam stupid the Germans were when they refused
> >>> to move their economy off manufacturing into financial services???
> >> Meanwhile, back in the USofA, it’s all about next quarter’s
> >> dividends.http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/11/business/la-fi-ge-dividend-20……
> >> In striking contrast, General Electric, the American industrial giant
> >> and Siemens competitor, is looking out for its shareholders by
> >> granting its second dividend of the year. They’ve gotta do something
> >> with that $20 billion in cash they have lying around. GE will make
> >> about $7 billion in profits this year, but about $3 billion of that it
> >> is from the bank it owns, GE Capital. That would be the same GE
> >> Capital bailed out by the taxpayers. CEO Jeffery Immelt will collect a
> >> salary of about $10 million, choosing for the second year to forego a
> >> huge bonus. Meanwhile, GE is demanding Massachusetts pay them $25
> >> million to keep a factory open.
> >> However, thanks to the forward-looking,, progressive Obama
> >> administration, there will be a few jobs in Tennessee in a year or so:
> >>http://www.energy.gov/news/8581.htm
> >> The fully electric, low priced Nissan Leaf went on sale yesterday.
> >> Olivier Chalouhi of Redwood City in Silicon Valley was the first
> >> buyer. The vehicle was priced at $33,500, but dropped to $20,000 after
> >> federal and state rebates. The Leaves, if you will, currently on sale
> >> now are made in Nissan’s factory in Oppama, Japan. Thanks to the Obama
> >> Administration and a $1.4 billion Energy Department loan, in 2012 the
> >> Leaf will be made at Nissan’s plant in Smyrna, Tennessee. 1300 jobs
> >> are expected.
> > It’s over. The auto industry has been doing everything they can to
> > hold back the electric car, but once it went on sale…it’s finished.
> > The floodgates will soon open, and Ford& GM will either get on board
> > or be left behind.
> Listen, Sparky, the problem is that the Leaf does 100 miles on a charge.
> Chevy’s Volt does 40 miles. If you do much of your commute at higher
> speeds, the Volt’s gasoline engine kicks in.
So? How many days do you drive more than that? Most people live in
cities, and don’t drive much more than that to work.
> Now hereabouts, we’d charge those Leafs and Volts from electricity
> delivered from one of several big, nasty coal-fired power plants along
> the Ohio River.
You may not be aware of this, but America is bigger than the shithole
you live in.
> > BTW, I should point out that practical technology for propane-powered
> > larger vehicles has been around for twenty years. I know, I was
> > riding around in one back then. That’s the next big thing. You
> > listening, Freightliner?
> Technology? There is no practical difference between an engine which
> runs on gasoline and one which runs on propane or natural gas.
First off, moron, propane burns much cleaner than gasoline. Second
off, there is far more natural gas available out there than oil.
Third off, you don’t have to refine gas. You just compress it and put
it in your tank.
>The auto
> makers fire up and test new vehicles on the assembly line using natural
> gas. Any homeowner can purchase a kit from a little company in Canvas,
> West Virginia which will convert any gasoline generator to use propane
> or natural gas. The cost? A shopping eighty bucks.
So, you’re saying it IS feasible. Thanks for changing your mind.
U.S. ISSUE. KEEP IT IN THE AMERICAN NEWSGROUPS.
"Day Brown" <dayhbr…@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:w8SdnaFEIq6YQJrQnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@giganews.com…
> On 12/13/2010 10:10 AM, Liberals are vermin wrote:
[SNIPPED]
"Duncan Patton a Campbell" <campb…@neotext.ca> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.12.15.09.35.21@neotext.ca…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 22:03:54 -0500, Harold Burton wrote:
>>> > Technology? There is no practical difference between an engine which
>>> > runs on gasoline and one which runs on propane or natural gas.
>>> First off, moron, propane burns much cleaner than gasoline.
>> cite?
>> snicker
> "Cite"??? Gasoline averages around 8 carbon with propane
> at 3 giving propane a higher hydrogen to carbon ratio which yields
> more water and less CO2 for the energy emitted by combustion with
> oxygen.
> Go read a book or something.
> Dhu
> —
> Duncan Patton a Campbell is Dhu >>> Ne Obliviscaris
"Duncan Patton a Campbell" <campb…@neotext.ca> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.12.18.00.47.16@neotext.ca…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:48:53 -0500, Harold Burton wrote:
>> In article <pan.2010.12.16.05.56…@neotext.ca>,
>> Duncan Patton a Campbell <campb…@neotext.ca> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:12:01 -0500, Harold Burton wrote:
>>> > In article <pan.2010.12.15.09.35…@neotext.ca>,
>>> > Duncan Patton a Campbell <campb…@neotext.ca> wrote:
>>> >> On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 22:03:54 -0500, Harold Burton wrote:
>>> >> >> > Technology? There is no practical difference between an engine
>>> >> >> > which runs on gasoline and one which runs on propane or natural
>>> >> >> > gas.
>>> >> >> First off, moron, propane burns much cleaner than gasoline.
>>> >> > cite?
>>> >> > snicker
>>> >> "Cite"??? Gasoline averages around 8 carbon with propane at 3
>>> >> giving propane a higher hydrogen to carbon ratio which yields more
>>> >> water and less CO2 for the energy emitted by combustion with oxygen.
>>> > And that results in how much cleaner burning?
>>> You are too stupid for words.
>> Knew you couldn’t answer.
>> snicker
> What’s "Cleaner" to you ?
> Dhu (snic)
> —
> Duncan Patton a Campbell is Dhu >>> Ne Obliviscaris
"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
news:f8mgg65r3n3ebh22jhakpt29gspt55ettv@4ax.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 03:33:27 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>On Dec 13, 10:31 pm, Straw Man <st…@man.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:18:26 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> >On Dec 13, 12:42 pm, JSM <ekrub…@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> RICHMOND, Va. A federal judge in Virginia has declared the Obama
>>> >> administration’s health care reform law unconstitutional.
>>> >> U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson is the first judge to rule against
>>> >> the law, which has been upheld by two others in Virginia and
>>> >> Michigan.
>>> >> Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli filed the lawsuit
>>> >> challenging
>>> >> the law’s requirement that citizens buy health insurance or pay a
>>> >> penalty starting in 2014.
>>> >> He argues the federal government doesn’t have the constitutional
>>> >> authority to impose the requirement.
>>> >> Other lawsuits are pending, including one filed by 20 states in a
>>> >> Florida court. Virginia is not part of that lawsuit.
>>> >But Michigan is one of the 20 states, and the "upholding" by the
>>> >federal judge in Michigan was a dismissal of a private lawsuit on a
>>> >completely different matter. The judge in Michigan relied on an
>>> >argument by Congress that mandating everyone to have insurance will
>>> >eventually lower overall costs for health care.
>>> Not to mention reducing totally preventable and unnecessary deaths.
>>> Still…increase the deficit and bring on the coffins..way to go!
>>> The republican slogan is forward to the past"
>>> U.S. Ranks Last
>>Which does put this issue in terms of constitutional freedoms versus
>>coercion for a presumed public good. The right to do nothing is the
>>ultimate right and to be penalized for nothing other than being alive
>>is the ultimate involuntary servitude.
> No the right to do nothing is not the ultimate right, public health
> concerns trump it.
> Or are you seriously suggesting folk infected with smallpox or TB
> have the right to roam about at will infecting and killing everyone
> they come in contact with?
Which has precisely NOTHING to do with being FORCED to buy something or
FINED if you don’t.
"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
news:vp2hg6dmlbiq7ad3gem3s3ndi0vtr07ean@4ax.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 01:22:27 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
> <L…@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
>>news:f8mgg65r3n3ebh22jhakpt29gspt55ettv@4ax.com…
>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 03:33:27 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>On Dec 13, 10:31 pm, Straw Man <st…@man.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:18:26 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>> >On Dec 13, 12:42 pm, JSM <ekrub…@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> RICHMOND, Va. A federal judge in Virginia has declared the Obama
>>>>> >> administration’s health care reform law unconstitutional.
>>>>> >> U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson is the first judge to rule against
>>>>> >> the law, which has been upheld by two others in Virginia and
>>>>> >> Michigan.
>>>>> >> Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli filed the lawsuit
>>>>> >> challenging
>>>>> >> the law’s requirement that citizens buy health insurance or pay a
>>>>> >> penalty starting in 2014.
>>>>> >> He argues the federal government doesn’t have the constitutional
>>>>> >> authority to impose the requirement.
>>>>> >> Other lawsuits are pending, including one filed by 20 states in a
>>>>> >> Florida court. Virginia is not part of that lawsuit.
>>>>> >But Michigan is one of the 20 states, and the "upholding" by the
>>>>> >federal judge in Michigan was a dismissal of a private lawsuit on a
>>>>> >completely different matter. The judge in Michigan relied on an
>>>>> >argument by Congress that mandating everyone to have insurance will
>>>>> >eventually lower overall costs for health care.
>>>>> Not to mention reducing totally preventable and unnecessary deaths.
>>>>> Still…increase the deficit and bring on the coffins..way to go!
>>>>> The republican slogan is forward to the past"
>>>>> U.S. Ranks Last
>>>>Which does put this issue in terms of constitutional freedoms versus
>>>>coercion for a presumed public good. The right to do nothing is the
>>>>ultimate right and to be penalized for nothing other than being alive
>>>>is the ultimate involuntary servitude.
>>> No the right to do nothing is not the ultimate right, public health
>>> concerns trump it.
>>> Or are you seriously suggesting folk infected with smallpox or TB
>>> have the right to roam about at will infecting and killing everyone
>>> they come in contact with?
>>Which has precisely NOTHING to do with being FORCED to buy something or
>>FINED if you don’t.
> Of course it has.
> There is no right to do nothing without a fine in thousands of
> situations.
> There are thousands of situations where you have to buy something or
> be fined.
No, there are not.
Straw Man <st…@man.com> offered these wise words
news:hlbkg65mckmpukp11cnvva3n3vqevpq393@4ax.com:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Subject: Re: Federal judge in Va. strikes down health care law
> From: Straw Man <st…@man.com>
> Newsgroups:
> alt.politics.usa,or.politics,us.politics,alt.culture.alaska
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:05:05 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
> <L…@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
>>news:vp2hg6dmlbiq7ad3gem3s3ndi0vtr07ean@4ax.com…
>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 01:22:27 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
>>> <L…@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:f8mgg65r3n3ebh22jhakpt29gspt55ettv@4ax.com…
>>>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 03:33:27 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>On Dec 13, 10:31 pm, Straw Man <st…@man.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:18:26 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>>>>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> >On Dec 13, 12:42 pm, JSM <ekrub…@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> RICHMOND, Va. A federal judge in Virginia has declared the
>>>>>>> >> Obama administration’s health care reform law
>>>>>>> >> unconstitutional.
>>>>>>> >> U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson is the first judge to rule
>>>>>>> >> against the law, which has been upheld by two others in
>>>>>>> >> Virginia and Michigan.
>>>>>>> >> Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli filed the lawsuit
>>>>>>> >> challenging
>>>>>>> >> the law’s requirement that citizens buy health insurance or
>>>>>>> >> pay a penalty starting in 2014.
>>>>>>> >> He argues the federal government doesn’t have the
>>>>>>> >> constitutional authority to impose the requirement.
>>>>>>> >> Other lawsuits are pending, including one filed by 20
>>>>>>> >> states in a Florida court. Virginia is not part of that
>>>>>>> >> lawsuit.
>>>>>>> >But Michigan is one of the 20 states, and the "upholding" by
>>>>>>> >the federal judge in Michigan was a dismissal of a private
>>>>>>> >lawsuit on a completely different matter. The judge in
>>>>>>> >Michigan relied on an argument by Congress that mandating
>>>>>>> >everyone to have insurance will eventually lower overall
>>>>>>> >costs for health care.
>>>>>>> Not to mention reducing totally preventable and unnecessary
>>>>>>> deaths. Still…increase the deficit and bring on the
>>>>>>> coffins..way to go!
>>>>>>> The republican slogan is forward to the past"
>>>>>>> U.S. Ranks Last
>>>>>>Which does put this issue in terms of constitutional freedoms
>>>>>>versus coercion for a presumed public good. The right to do
>>>>>>nothing is the ultimate right and to be penalized for nothing
>>>>>>other than being alive is the ultimate involuntary servitude.
>>>>> No the right to do nothing is not the ultimate right, public
>>>>> health concerns trump it.
>>>>> Or are you seriously suggesting folk infected with smallpox or
>>>>> TB have the right to roam about at will infecting and killing
>>>>> everyone they come in contact with?
>>>>Which has precisely NOTHING to do with being FORCED to buy
>>>>something or FINED if you don’t.
>>> Of course it has.
>>> There is no right to do nothing without a fine in thousands of
>>> situations.
>>> There are thousands of situations where you have to buy something
>>> or be fined.
>>No, there are not.
> Sure there are and always have been.
> It’s attitudes like yours that led to the BP oil spillage disaster.
oh, oh, Lobby you are to blame now for the BP according to the anti-
American left.
–
The Four Hidden Dynasties of the New World Order –
1. Religion 2. Politics 3. Economics 4. Education
Straw Man <st…@man.com> offered these wise words
news:hlbkg65mckmpukp11cnvva3n3vqevpq393@4ax.com:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:05:05 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
> <L…@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
>>news:vp2hg6dmlbiq7ad3gem3s3ndi0vtr07ean@4ax.com…
>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 01:22:27 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
>>> <L…@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:f8mgg65r3n3ebh22jhakpt29gspt55ettv@4ax.com…
>>>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 03:33:27 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>On Dec 13, 10:31 pm, Straw Man <st…@man.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:18:26 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>>>>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> >On Dec 13, 12:42 pm, JSM <ekrub…@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> RICHMOND, Va. A federal judge in Virginia has declared the
>>>>>>> >> Obama administration’s health care reform law
>>>>>>> >> unconstitutional.
>>>>>>> >> U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson is the first judge to rule
>>>>>>> >> against the law, which has been upheld by two others in
>>>>>>> >> Virginia and Michigan.
>>>>>>> >> Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli filed the lawsuit
>>>>>>> >> challenging
>>>>>>> >> the law’s requirement that citizens buy health insurance or
>>>>>>> >> pay a penalty starting in 2014.
>>>>>>> >> He argues the federal government doesn’t have the
>>>>>>> >> constitutional authority to impose the requirement.
>>>>>>> >> Other lawsuits are pending, including one filed by 20
>>>>>>> >> states in a Florida court. Virginia is not part of that
>>>>>>> >> lawsuit.
>>>>>>> >But Michigan is one of the 20 states, and the "upholding" by
>>>>>>> >the federal judge in Michigan was a dismissal of a private
>>>>>>> >lawsuit on a completely different matter. The judge in
>>>>>>> >Michigan relied on an argument by Congress that mandating
>>>>>>> >everyone to have insurance will eventually lower overall
>>>>>>> >costs for health care.
>>>>>>> Not to mention reducing totally preventable and unnecessary
>>>>>>> deaths. Still…increase the deficit and bring on the
>>>>>>> coffins..way to go!
>>>>>>> The republican slogan is forward to the past"
>>>>>>> U.S. Ranks Last
>>>>>>Which does put this issue in terms of constitutional freedoms
>>>>>>versus coercion for a presumed public good. The right to do
>>>>>>nothing is the ultimate right and to be penalized for nothing
>>>>>>other than being alive is the ultimate involuntary servitude.
>>>>> No the right to do nothing is not the ultimate right, public
>>>>> health concerns trump it.
>>>>> Or are you seriously suggesting folk infected with smallpox or
>>>>> TB have the right to roam about at will infecting and killing
>>>>> everyone they come in contact with?
>>>>Which has precisely NOTHING to do with being FORCED to buy
>>>>something or FINED if you don’t.
>>> Of course it has.
>>> There is no right to do nothing without a fine in thousands of
>>> situations.
>>> There are thousands of situations where you have to buy something
>>> or be fined.
>>No, there are not.
> Sure there are and always have been.
> It’s attitudes like yours that led to the BP oil spillage disaster.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_code
> 233. If a builder builds a house for someone, even though he has
> not
> yet completed it; if then the walls seem toppling, the builder must
> make the walls solid from his own means.
> The Law of Moses stipulated a specific construction requirement
> which is also an early form of a building code. The Bible book of
> Deuteronomy, chapter 22 verse 8, states:
> * "In case you build a new house, you must also make a parapet
> for
> your roof, that you may not place bloodguilt upon your house because
> someone falling might fall from it."
> Traditionally building codes were generally short non complex
> interrelated sets of rules. They generally included reference to
> hundreds of other codes, standards and guidelines that specify the
> details of the component or system design, specify testing
> requirements for components, or outline good engineering practice.
> These detailed codes required a great deal of specialization to
> interpret, and also greatly constrained change and innovation in
> building design.
> In recent years several countries, beginning with Australia, have
> moved to much shorter objective based buildings codes. Rather than
> prescribing specific details, objective codes lists a series of
> objectives all buildings must meet while leaving open how these
> objectives will be met.
> When applying for a building permit the designers must demonstrate
> how they meet each objective.
So Australia has fewer lawyers? How do they build job security then if
not constantly writing laws like America?
–
The Four Hidden Dynasties of the New World Order –
1. Religion 2. Politics 3. Economics 4. Education
"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
news:hlbkg65mckmpukp11cnvva3n3vqevpq393@4ax.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:05:05 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
> <L…@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
>>news:vp2hg6dmlbiq7ad3gem3s3ndi0vtr07ean@4ax.com…
>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 01:22:27 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
>>> <L…@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:f8mgg65r3n3ebh22jhakpt29gspt55ettv@4ax.com…
>>>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 03:33:27 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>On Dec 13, 10:31 pm, Straw Man <st…@man.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:18:26 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>>>>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> >On Dec 13, 12:42 pm, JSM <ekrub…@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> RICHMOND, Va. A federal judge in Virginia has declared the Obama
>>>>>>> >> administration’s health care reform law unconstitutional.
>>>>>>> >> U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson is the first judge to rule
>>>>>>> >> against
>>>>>>> >> the law, which has been upheld by two others in Virginia and
>>>>>>> >> Michigan.
>>>>>>> >> Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli filed the lawsuit
>>>>>>> >> challenging
>>>>>>> >> the law’s requirement that citizens buy health insurance or pay a
>>>>>>> >> penalty starting in 2014.
>>>>>>> >> He argues the federal government doesn’t have the constitutional
>>>>>>> >> authority to impose the requirement.
>>>>>>> >> Other lawsuits are pending, including one filed by 20 states in a
>>>>>>> >> Florida court. Virginia is not part of that lawsuit.
>>>>>>> >But Michigan is one of the 20 states, and the "upholding" by the
>>>>>>> >federal judge in Michigan was a dismissal of a private lawsuit on a
>>>>>>> >completely different matter. The judge in Michigan relied on an
>>>>>>> >argument by Congress that mandating everyone to have insurance will
>>>>>>> >eventually lower overall costs for health care.
>>>>>>> Not to mention reducing totally preventable and unnecessary deaths.
>>>>>>> Still…increase the deficit and bring on the coffins..way to go!
>>>>>>> The republican slogan is forward to the past"
>>>>>>> U.S. Ranks Last
>>>>>>Which does put this issue in terms of constitutional freedoms versus
>>>>>>coercion for a presumed public good. The right to do nothing is the
>>>>>>ultimate right and to be penalized for nothing other than being alive
>>>>>>is the ultimate involuntary servitude.
>>>>> No the right to do nothing is not the ultimate right, public health
>>>>> concerns trump it.
>>>>> Or are you seriously suggesting folk infected with smallpox or TB
>>>>> have the right to roam about at will infecting and killing everyone
>>>>> they come in contact with?
>>>>Which has precisely NOTHING to do with being FORCED to buy something or
>>>>FINED if you don’t.
>>> Of course it has.
>>> There is no right to do nothing without a fine in thousands of
>>> situations.
>>> There are thousands of situations where you have to buy something or
>>> be fined.
>>No, there are not.
> Sure there are and always have been.
> It’s attitudes like yours that led to the BP oil spillage disaster.
Now there’s a Jump! Off your meds?
"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
news:gbrlg6hu3vmjf1vfv85gal2mtu8m43b7oe@4ax.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:38:03 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
> <L…@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
>>news:hlbkg65mckmpukp11cnvva3n3vqevpq393@4ax.com…
>>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:05:05 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
>>> <L…@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:vp2hg6dmlbiq7ad3gem3s3ndi0vtr07ean@4ax.com…
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 01:22:27 -0800, "Lobby Dosser"
>>>>> <L…@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>"Straw Man" <st…@man.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:f8mgg65r3n3ebh22jhakpt29gspt55ettv@4ax.com…
>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 03:33:27 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>>>>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>On Dec 13, 10:31 pm, Straw Man <st…@man.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:18:26 -0800 (PST), Charles Bell
>>>>>>>>> <cbel…@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >On Dec 13, 12:42 pm, JSM <ekrub…@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> RICHMOND, Va. A federal judge in Virginia has declared the
>>>>>>>>> >> Obama
>>>>>>>>> >> administration’s health care reform law unconstitutional.
>>>>>>>>> >> U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson is the first judge to rule
>>>>>>>>> >> against
>>>>>>>>> >> the law, which has been upheld by two others in Virginia and
>>>>>>>>> >> Michigan.
>>>>>>>>> >> Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli filed the lawsuit
>>>>>>>>> >> challenging
>>>>>>>>> >> the law’s requirement that citizens buy health insurance or pay
>>>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>>>> >> penalty starting in 2014.
>>>>>>>>> >> He argues the federal government doesn’t have the
>>>>>>>>> >> constitutional
>>>>>>>>> >> authority to impose the requirement.
>>>>>>>>> >> Other lawsuits are pending, including one filed by 20 states in
>>>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>>>> >> Florida court. Virginia is not part of that lawsuit.
>>>>>>>>> >But Michigan is one of the 20 states, and the "upholding" by the
>>>>>>>>> >federal judge in Michigan was a dismissal of a private lawsuit on
>>>>>>>>> >a
>>>>>>>>> >completely different matter. The judge in Michigan relied on an
>>>>>>>>> >argument by Congress that mandating everyone to have insurance
>>>>>>>>> >will
>>>>>>>>> >eventually lower overall costs for health care.
>>>>>>>>> Not to mention reducing totally preventable and unnecessary
>>>>>>>>> deaths.
>>>>>>>>> Still…increase the deficit and bring on the coffins..way to go!
>>>>>>>>> The republican slogan is forward to the past"
>>>>>>>>> U.S. Ranks Last
>>>>>>>>Which does put this issue in terms of constitutional freedoms versus
>>>>>>>>coercion for a presumed public good. The right to do nothing is the
>>>>>>>>ultimate right and to be penalized for nothing other than being
>>>>>>>>alive
>>>>>>>>is the ultimate involuntary servitude.
>>>>>>> No the right to do nothing is not the ultimate right, public health
>>>>>>> concerns trump it.
>>>>>>> Or are you seriously suggesting folk infected with smallpox or TB
>>>>>>> have the right to roam about at will infecting and killing everyone
>>>>>>> they come in contact with?
>>>>>>Which has precisely NOTHING to do with being FORCED to buy something
>>>>>>or
>>>>>>FINED if you don’t.
>>>>> Of course it has.
>>>>> There is no right to do nothing without a fine in thousands of
>>>>> situations.
>>>>> There are thousands of situations where you have to buy something or
>>>>> be fined.
>>>>No, there are not.
>>> Sure there are and always have been.
>>> It’s attitudes like yours that led to the BP oil spillage disaster.
>>Now there’s a Jump!
> The BP disaster occurred because they thought they had a right to "do
> nothing" and refused to maintain the safety devices.
> There are thousands of situations where you have to buy something or
> be fined.
Nope. You have Choices.
In article <ga4hg6t5vq2eclrsne1s32mshcu6kve…@4ax.com>, Straw Man
<st…@man.com> wrote:
> Comprehensive health care reform will increase revenue and cut costs
> leading to a reduction of $138 billion in the federal deficit
> according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office.
The problem with the HC law is that it establishes a sky is the limit
fiscal policy. As a nation we can afford basic HC for all through
public and private policy. However, we can’t afford $500,000 treatments
plans for tens of millions of people. We have to ration care based on
costs. The problem with Medicare is that it doesn’t limit expenses.
By all means if you have $500,000 in the bank then feel free to spend
that money on HC, but the HC provided by others should have limits to
keep costs reasonable.
–
Best Regards, Keith
http://home.comcast.net/~kilowattradio/
In article <161220100001121412%kilowattra…@use-reply-to.invalid>,
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Keith <kilowattra…@use-reply-to.invalid> wrote:
> In article <ga4hg6t5vq2eclrsne1s32mshcu6kve…@4ax.com>, Straw Man
> <st…@man.com> wrote:
> > Comprehensive health care reform will increase revenue and cut costs
> > leading to a reduction of $138 billion in the federal deficit
> > according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office.
> The problem with the HC law is that it establishes a sky is the limit
> fiscal policy. As a nation we can afford basic HC for all through
> public and private policy. However, we can’t afford $500,000 treatments
> plans for tens of millions of people. We have to ration care based on
> costs. The problem with Medicare is that it doesn’t limit expenses.
> By all means if you have $500,000 in the bank then feel free to spend
> that money on HC, but the HC provided by others should have limits to
> keep costs reasonable.
Medicare does limit expenses by putting a ceiling on what it will pay.
that is why the public option was so needed in the health care act..
—
I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But they’re never the ones to fight or to die –
Lives in the Balance, Jackson Browne