<La…@LA.com> wrote in message
news:3ba228b5.517704723@news.pacificnet.net…
> On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:34:43 GMT, neverm…@poe.tv (adams) wrote:
> >Mr. Chomsky has always proven himself to hate America and this day is
> >apparently no different. The left and his anti-US allies have become
> >marginialized in the space of 24 hours. Its amazing to watch their fall
> >into
> >irrelevancy through no effort of the right.
> Chomsky is a despicable man. He is an appeaser. One who would have
> "empathized" with Hitler’s Germany and urged restraint and caution.
> We all know where that lead.
That you compare Hitler to Osama Bin Laden shows gross ignorance on your
part about one if not both of these men. They are in no way comparable
unless you tune your little mind into the airwaves emanating from some
CONservative talk show host on the radio for hours upon hours each day.
If you are looking for a comparison to Hitler then look to Israel where
Ariel Sharon has patterned his life upon Hitler. Israel was created by a
Nazi-Zionist alliance. It is the Israelis who are practicing genocide and
their victims are Palestinians who are dieing from the use of billions of
dollars worth of American weapons by the Israelis.
That is where the diplomacy comes in. Bin Laden or his surrogates in Arab
governments have to be negotiated with. Bin Laden is expecting military
strikes from the U.S. This is what he wants. The strikes will give him and
his kind more warriors bent on destruction. Maybe next time it will be
bio-warfare and over a million dead bodies instead of a building?
The Muslims know that they can not tolerate "Western values" in their
religion but there is a large space between their countries and the West (I
know about the Muslims in southern Europe and the proximity of Turkey to
Europe but the Muslims have much room to live). The problem is Israel,
there is no getting away from that. Israel is like a malignancy in the
Middle East, it does not rest, it constantly tries to metastasize ("Jewish
settlements"). If the "West" was the problem and not Israel then why don’t
the Muslims bomb Britain, France and Germany?
Only the French have been bombed by Muslims and that was because of Algeria
and the bombings were by Algerians. That is the "Vietnam" for the French.
The only Muslim bombing in Germany was by Libyans against U.S. military
personnel in Germany.
Israel is the problem.
On Mon, 17 Sep 2001 03:10:20 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
<nob…@dizum.com> wrote:
><La…@LA.com> wrote in message
>news:3ba228b5.517704723@news.pacificnet.net…
>> On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:34:43 GMT, neverm…@poe.tv (adams) wrote:
>> >Mr. Chomsky has always proven himself to hate America and this day is
>> >apparently no different. The left and his anti-US allies have become
>> >marginialized in the space of 24 hours. Its amazing to watch their fall
>> >into
>> >irrelevancy through no effort of the right.
>> Chomsky is a despicable man. He is an appeaser. One who would have
>> "empathized" with Hitler’s Germany and urged restraint and caution.
>> We all know where that lead.
>That you compare Hitler to Osama Bin Laden shows gross ignorance on your
>part about one if not both of these men. They are in no way comparable
They both want to kill as many Jews as possible. That’s comparison
enough for me.
[snip of pathetic anti-Semitic diatribe]
>That is where the diplomacy comes in. Bin Laden or his surrogates in Arab
>governments have to be negotiated with. Bin Laden is expecting military
>strikes from the U.S. This is what he wants. The strikes will give him and
>his kind more warriors bent on destruction. Maybe next time it will be
>bio-warfare and over a million dead bodies instead of a building?
You are the worst kind of appeaser. You WOULD have cheered
((
Chamberlain for giving Hitler the keys to Central Europe.
>The Muslims know that they can not tolerate "Western values" in their
>religion
Not "the Muslims". SOME fanatical idiots who also think it’s OK to
assassinate innocent people and that God will reward them for their
crimes. Don’t you dare dump all the countless decent Muslims into
that category.
>but there is a large space between their countries and the West (I
>know about the Muslims in southern Europe and the proximity of Turkey to
>Europe but the Muslims have much room to live).
I see. They "only want Lebensraum"… We’ve been there before.
>The problem is Israel,
>there is no getting away from that. Israel is like a malignancy in the
>Middle East, it does not rest, it constantly tries to metastasize ("Jewish
>settlements"). If the "West" was the problem and not Israel then why don’t
>the Muslims bomb Britain, France and Germany?
They have, you ignorant racist.
>Only the French have been bombed by Muslims and that was because of Algeria
>and the bombings were by Algerians.
Again completely false. All the European countries have been the
object of countless acts of terrorism, a lot of them from Yasser
Arafat and his clique.
>That is the "Vietnam" for the French.
>The only Muslim bombing in Germany was by Libyans against U.S. military
>personnel in Germany.
And how quickly you forget the hostage taking in Munich. But I guess
it doesn’t count for you as they only killed a few Jews.
>Israel is the problem.
Ignorant fanatical morons who are willing to kill or see killed people
just because they don’t have the same religion like you are the
problem.
You’re a sad, sad specimen of human trash.
Uh…they have bombed Britain Germany and France dude.
Hitler was far worse than Bin Laden, to date.
Saying Israel was founded as a Nazi Zionist whatever is ignorant. You do
know that the Nazi’s tried to eliminate all Jewish people in their "Final
Solution."
How can you be so ignorant of history ?
Eisenhower was right to order his troops to march through the concentration
camps, it seems the world is already trying to forget.
Sad, sad sad.
–
Alexander Ibrahim
http://www.zenera.com
I decline unsolicited commercial email (SPAM)
If you send it to me I will invoice you $500
"Nomen Nescio" <nob…@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:4b6e5f904f7982ce4ecd4dccb1728a4b@dizum.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> <La…@LA.com> wrote in message
> news:3ba228b5.517704723@news.pacificnet.net…
> > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:34:43 GMT, neverm…@poe.tv (adams) wrote:
> > >Mr. Chomsky has always proven himself to hate America and this day is
> > >apparently no different. The left and his anti-US allies have become
> > >marginialized in the space of 24 hours. Its amazing to watch their
fall
> > >into
> > >irrelevancy through no effort of the right.
> > Chomsky is a despicable man. He is an appeaser. One who would have
> > "empathized" with Hitler’s Germany and urged restraint and caution.
> > We all know where that lead.
> That you compare Hitler to Osama Bin Laden shows gross ignorance on your
> part about one if not both of these men. They are in no way comparable
> unless you tune your little mind into the airwaves emanating from some
> CONservative talk show host on the radio for hours upon hours each day.
> If you are looking for a comparison to Hitler then look to Israel where
> Ariel Sharon has patterned his life upon Hitler. Israel was created by a
> Nazi-Zionist alliance. It is the Israelis who are practicing genocide and
> their victims are Palestinians who are dieing from the use of billions of
> dollars worth of American weapons by the Israelis.
> That is where the diplomacy comes in. Bin Laden or his surrogates in Arab
> governments have to be negotiated with. Bin Laden is expecting military
> strikes from the U.S. This is what he wants. The strikes will give him and
> his kind more warriors bent on destruction. Maybe next time it will be
> bio-warfare and over a million dead bodies instead of a building?
> The Muslims know that they can not tolerate "Western values" in their
> religion but there is a large space between their countries and the West
(I
> know about the Muslims in southern Europe and the proximity of Turkey to
> Europe but the Muslims have much room to live). The problem is Israel,
> there is no getting away from that. Israel is like a malignancy in the
> Middle East, it does not rest, it constantly tries to metastasize ("Jewish
> settlements"). If the "West" was the problem and not Israel then why don’t
> the Muslims bomb Britain, France and Germany?
> Only the French have been bombed by Muslims and that was because of
Algeria
> and the bombings were by Algerians. That is the "Vietnam" for the French.
> The only Muslim bombing in Germany was by Libyans against U.S. military
> personnel in Germany.
> Israel is the problem.
Chomsky has apparently just made this up…or he is an idiot. I think the
former.
The bombing in Sudan: That was a chemical weapons factory AND a
pharmaceutical factory. US Intelligence was not complete in the matter as
intelligence often is. We attacked it at local night to avoid killing as
many as possible. Since it served both functions though…it was still busy.
Such is conflict.
There is strong evidence tying that property to Osama bin Laden who claims
responsibility for the bombing. In other words, it was one of his
businesses. You know, where he gets his money. Money he uses to kill us.
Certainly not the absence of pretext, it is a SOLID reason to attack. Expect
more of this. Right now US Intelligence is scouring the earth for targets
like this. It was a good strike.
I have seen some of the declassified evidence after the fact. I’ll tell you
it is credible, I could see with MY OWN EYES the evidence of chemical
weapons manufacture. You should be able to see this if you requisition the
appropiate documents via FOIA. Sorry, I don’t have document numbers or
anything to help more than I have said here.
None of this is mentioned…it is all dismissed as, "no credible pretext" by
Chomsky. Well, there is a reason he is a linguist not a politician,
intelligence officer or general. Chomsky compares this minor event to the
WTC bombings…he claims FLAT OUT that we killed more people, when Sudan and
the Taliban don’t claim that! They claim ~30 people! Why should we guess TWO
ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE higher ?
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec98/berger_8-21.html
Frankly the Choamsky article is rubbish…Choamsky is an anti-US anti-war
activist. Do your own research, you obviously have Internet access, you can
find it all there.
—
Alexander Ibrahim
http://www.zenera.com
I decline unsolicited commercial email (SPAM)
If you send it to me I will invoice you $500
"Larry R" <futu…@primus.ca> wrote in message
news:1Hho7.5782$0a1.118294@amsnews02.chello.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Tabernacle" <tabernacle2…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6449fb5e.0109101412.78059909@posting.google.com…
> On the Bombings
> Noam Chomsky
> The terrorist attacks were major atrocities. In scale they may not reach
> the level of many others, for example, Clinton’s bombing of the Sudan
> with no credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical supplies
> and killing unknown numbers of people (no one knows, because the US
> blocked an inquiry at the UN and no one cares to pursue it). Not to
> speak of much worse cases, which easily come to mind. But that this was
> a horrendous crime is not in doubt. The primary victims, as usual, were
> working people: janitors, secretaries, firemen, etc. It is likely to
> prove to be a crushing blow to Palestinians and other poor and oppressed
> people. It is also likely to lead to harsh security controls, with many
> possible ramifications for undermining civil liberties and internal
> freedom.
> The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of the project of
> "missile defense." As has been obvious all along, and pointed out
> repeatedly by strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense
> damage in the US, including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly
> unlikely to launch a missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate
> destruction. There are innumerable easier ways that are basically
> unstoppable. But today’s events will, very likely, be exploited to
> increase the pressure to develop these systems and put them into place.
> "Defense" is a thin cover for plans for militarization of space, and
> with good PR, even the flimsiest arguments will carry some weight among
> a frightened public.
> In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope
> to use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the
> likely US actions, and what they will trigger — possibly more attacks
> like this one, or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than
> they appeared to be before the latest atrocities.
> As to how to react, we have a choice. We can express justified horror;
> we can seek to understand what may have led to the crimes, which means
> making an effort to enter the minds of the likely perpetrators. If we
> choose the latter course, we can do no better, I think, than to listen
> to the words of Robert Fisk, whose direct knowledge and insight into
> affairs of the region is unmatched after many years of distinguished
> reporting. Describing "The wickedness and awesome cruelty of a crushed
> and humiliated people," he writes that "this is not the war of democracy
> versus terror that the world will be asked to believe in the coming
> days. It is also about American missiles smashing into Palestinian homes
> and US helicopters firing missiles into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and
> American shells crashing into a village called Qana and about a Lebanese
> militia – paid and uniformed by America’s Israeli ally – hacking and
> raping and murdering their way through refugee camps." And much more.
> Again, we have a choice: we may try to understand, or refuse to do so,
> contributing to the likelihood that much worse lies ahead.
On Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:05:48 GMT, "Alexander Ibrahim"
<n…@zenera.com> wrote:
>Uh…they have bombed Britain Germany and France dude.
>Hitler was far worse than Bin Laden, to date.
>Saying Israel was founded as a Nazi Zionist whatever is ignorant. You do
>know that the Nazi’s tried to eliminate all Jewish people in their "Final
>Solution."
>How can you be so ignorant of history ?
And whenever we ignore history, we are bound to repeat its worst
mistakes.
>Eisenhower was right to order his troops to march through the concentration
>camps, it seems the world is already trying to forget.
>Sad, sad sad.
Very sad.
((
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>–
>Alexander Ibrahim
>http://www.zenera.com
>I decline unsolicited commercial email (SPAM)
>If you send it to me I will invoice you $500
>"Nomen Nescio" <nob…@dizum.com> wrote in message
>news:4b6e5f904f7982ce4ecd4dccb1728a4b@dizum.com…
On Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:14:39 GMT, "Alexander Ibrahim"
<n…@zenera.com> wrote:
>Chomsky has apparently just made this up…or he is an idiot. I think the
>former.
>The bombing in Sudan: That was a chemical weapons factory AND a
>pharmaceutical factory. US Intelligence was not complete in the matter as
>intelligence often is. We attacked it at local night to avoid killing as
>many as possible. Since it served both functions though…it was still busy.
>Such is conflict.
Chomsky clearly would rather have had us do nothing and let the
(
Israelis be gassed…
>There is strong evidence tying that property to Osama bin Laden who claims
>responsibility for the bombing. In other words, it was one of his
>businesses. You know, where he gets his money. Money he uses to kill us.
Why we don’t cut off his money spigot is beyond me.
(
>Certainly not the absence of pretext, it is a SOLID reason to attack. Expect
>more of this. Right now US Intelligence is scouring the earth for targets
>like this. It was a good strike.
>I have seen some of the declassified evidence after the fact. I’ll tell you
>it is credible, I could see with MY OWN EYES the evidence of chemical
>weapons manufacture. You should be able to see this if you requisition the
>appropiate documents via FOIA. Sorry, I don’t have document numbers or
>anything to help more than I have said here.
I for one believe you.
>None of this is mentioned…it is all dismissed as, "no credible pretext" by
>Chomsky. Well, there is a reason he is a linguist not a politician,
>intelligence officer or general.
Pretty sad that he would do that though.
>Chomsky compares this minor event to the
>WTC bombings…he claims FLAT OUT that we killed more people, when Sudan and
>the Taliban don’t claim that! They claim ~30 people! Why should we guess TWO
>ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE higher ?
Because appeasers like him will stop at nothing to try and appease the
enemy in hopes somehow they’ll go away if we give in to their every
whim.
>http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec98/berger_8-21.html
>Frankly the Choamsky article is rubbish…Choamsky is an anti-US anti-war
>activist. Do your own research, you obviously have Internet access, you can
>find it all there.
He, like many others (PAt Robertson, Jerry Falwell, the Libertarian
Party) has lost all credibility in one fell swop.
La…@LA.com wrote:
(
> Chomsky clearly would rather have had us do nothing and let the
> Israelis be gassed…
then why don’t you (the u.s.) bomb israel when they make weapons that
you know they will use to kill palestinians and other arabs? of course
they don’t have to make weapons for this purpose since you already give
it to them, but you know what i mean. this is an honest question. i
would *really* like to know why americans seem to value israeli lives
higher than palestinian lives.
/matt
> How can you be so ignorant of history ?
he went to public schools in arizona
Just to start off, I do totally disagree with all that rubbish about
Sharon modelling himself of Hitler and that crap about israel being a
Nazi-zinist whatever. but…
> La…@LA.com wrote:
(
> > Chomsky clearly would rather have had us do nothing and let the
> > Israelis be gassed…
Have the Israelis been gassed yet? So far they have suffered under the
still despicable attacks of sniperism and suicide bombings.
> then why don’t you (the u.s.) bomb israel when they make weapons that
> you know they will use to kill palestinians and other arabs? of course
> they don’t have to make weapons for this purpose since you already give
> it to them, but you know what i mean. this is an honest question.
And what about the vast amounts of money the IMF under US direction is
giving to Turkey, while the "West" turns a blind eye to the Turkish
army’s violent and illegal military actions against Kurds in Northern
Iraq (supposedly the enemies of Saddam Hussein)?
How about Americas and Britain’s support of the Indonesian governments
genocide of the East Timorese, or the US state sponsoring of terrorism
against communist governments in the Middle east against Central
America… Are such things better or worse than appeasement? You can
argue the toss on the merits of Clinton’s attack the Sudan factory and
the Afghan camps but in the end, they did nothing to make the world
safer from terrorism.
The attacks on america were acts of unspeakable cruelty and evil and
certainly comparable with the acts of those condemned of war crimes in
the Balkans, but that does not negate the fact the the US government
and it’s intellegence agencies are thoroughly entangle in the world of
international terror and while totally unjustifiable in any terms,
these attacks are a consequence of that
> i
> would *really* like to know why americans seem to value israeli lives
> higher than palestinian lives.
(actually it’s American foreign policy that presently values israeli
security above the rights of palestinians – though Arafat bears a lot
of the responsibility for what has happened since when he turned down
the deal Ehud Barak offered him, I believe things are now way beyond
his always rather ineffective control.)
Dylan
In article <3ba625e7.217163…@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>,
La…@LA.com said:
> And whenever we ignore history, we are bound to repeat its
> worst mistakes.
"History doesn’t always repeat itself… sometimes it just
screams ‘Why don’t you listen when I’m talking to you?’ and
lets fly with a club."
— sf editor and writer John W. Campbell, Jr.
On 20 Sep 2001 20:33:06 -0400, wdst…@panix.com (William December
Starr) wrote:
>In article <3ba625e7.217163…@newsproxy.pacificnet.net>,
>La…@LA.com said:
>> And whenever we ignore history, we are bound to repeat its
>> worst mistakes.
>"History doesn’t always repeat itself… sometimes it just
>screams ‘Why don’t you listen when I’m talking to you?’ and
>lets fly with a club."
> – sf editor and writer John W. Campbell, Jr.
Intersting quote
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
"Alexander Ibrahim" <n…@zenera.com> wrote in message
news:gOkp7.294786$J37.77164804@typhoon.southeast.rr.com…
> Hitler was far worse than Bin Laden, to date.
> Saying Israel was founded as a Nazi Zionist whatever is ignorant. You do
> know that the Nazi’s tried to eliminate all Jewish people in their "Final
> Solution."
An even more disturbing feature of the early Zionists was their close relationship with
anti-Semites, who Herzl believed were the most useful allies for the Zionists because no
one could doubt the sincerity of their desire to see the Jews leave to found their own
homeland. Herzl wrote, ‘Anti-Semitism has grown and continues to grow and so do I.’[11]
He referred to anti-Semitism as a great force which, ‘if rightly employed is powerful
enough to propel a large engine and dispatch the passengers and goods’ – to Palestine or
anywhere else the Zionists desired.
Herzl did not hesitate to negotiate with the German Kaiser who made anti-Semitic remarks
in his presence to which the Zionist leader offered no objection) as well as the dreaded
Russian Minister Wenzel von Plehve, the most notorious Jew hater of his age. Although no
concrete agreements emerged from Herzl’s negotiations with anti-Semites, he set a
precedent, which was followed by many Zionist leaders of subsequent generations who had
extensive relations with all manner of Jew haters.
This tendency to deal with anti-Semites is more easily under-stood if we consider the
anti-Semitic mentality of many leading Zionists. Herzl remarked on the lack of ‘ethical
seriousness in many Jews’ and the ‘crookedness of Jew morality’.[12] He looked down on
the Jewish masses of Eastern Europe and admired the haughty Prussian aristocracy. Other
Zionists called Jews ‘parasitic’ and ‘fundamentally useless people’. [13] They
criticized their own people for being a commercial urban race who they claimed
worshipped the Golden Calf. The Zionists bemoaned the fact that few Jews were farmers or
workers who created with their own hands. This they believed was the source of the
hatred which many gentiles felt towards Jews.
http://www.mideastfacts.com/Palumbo_chptr1.html
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> How can you be so ignorant of history ?
> Eisenhower was right to order his troops to march through the concentration
> camps, it seems the world is already trying to forget.
> Sad, sad sad.
> —
> Alexander Ibrahim
> http://www.zenera.com
> I decline unsolicited commercial email (SPAM)
> If you send it to me I will invoice you $500
> "Nomen Nescio" <nob…@dizum.com> wrote in message
> news:4b6e5f904f7982ce4ecd4dccb1728a4b@dizum.com…
> > <La…@LA.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ba228b5.517704723@news.pacificnet.net…
> > > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:34:43 GMT, neverm…@poe.tv (adams) wrote:
> > > >Mr. Chomsky has always proven himself to hate America and this day is
> > > >apparently no different. The left and his anti-US allies have become
> > > >marginialized in the space of 24 hours. Its amazing to watch their
> fall
> > > >into
> > > >irrelevancy through no effort of the right.
> > > Chomsky is a despicable man. He is an appeaser. One who would have
> > > "empathized" with Hitler’s Germany and urged restraint and caution.
> > > We all know where that lead.
> > That you compare Hitler to Osama Bin Laden shows gross ignorance on your
> > part about one if not both of these men. They are in no way comparable
> > unless you tune your little mind into the airwaves emanating from some
> > CONservative talk show host on the radio for hours upon hours each day.
> > If you are looking for a comparison to Hitler then look to Israel where
> > Ariel Sharon has patterned his life upon Hitler. Israel was created by a
> > Nazi-Zionist alliance. It is the Israelis who are practicing genocide and
> > their victims are Palestinians who are dieing from the use of billions of
> > dollars worth of American weapons by the Israelis.
> > That is where the diplomacy comes in. Bin Laden or his surrogates in Arab
> > governments have to be negotiated with. Bin Laden is expecting military
> > strikes from the U.S. This is what he wants. The strikes will give him and
> > his kind more warriors bent on destruction. Maybe next time it will be
> > bio-warfare and over a million dead bodies instead of a building?
> > The Muslims know that they can not tolerate "Western values" in their
> > religion but there is a large space between their countries and the West
> (I
> > know about the Muslims in southern Europe and the proximity of Turkey to
> > Europe but the Muslims have much room to live). The problem is Israel,
> > there is no getting away from that. Israel is like a malignancy in the
> > Middle East, it does not rest, it constantly tries to metastasize ("Jewish
> > settlements"). If the "West" was the problem and not Israel then why don’t
> > the Muslims bomb Britain, France and Germany?
> > Only the French have been bombed by Muslims and that was because of
> Algeria
> > and the bombings were by Algerians. That is the "Vietnam" for the French.
> > The only Muslim bombing in Germany was by Libyans against U.S. military
> > personnel in Germany.
> > Israel is the problem.